[Manifold-l] download problems - still

Mon Oct 16 01:16:44 CDT 2006

Simon 

I've no idea why there's a better download experience with IE (or a worse
experience with IE - as some people believe). But the statistics of our
anecdotal experiences probably aren't so valid.  

I may be wrong, but my recommendation (apart from TRY, TRY, TRY AGAIN) would
be to experiment with one of these Download Manager things - I know very
little about how they work (because some apparently do NOT split the source
file into bits, transmit each, then re-combine them; that's what I had
assumed was the method, along with some checksums maintained by the client
downloader software on the fragments, to ensure valid recombination). 

<way_off_topic>
Some months ago I looked at BitTorrent and what I thought was a promising
evolution of a similar technique, from Microsoft - called Avalanche (you can
find the project / URLs on the Microsoft Research website). 
I don't make use of BitTorrent, myself (no particular reason - except that I
expect that Avalanche will be built into the Windows OS sometime, and used
from sites that are capable; I would use Avalanche if provided that way).

On Avalnche and BitTorrent type of products: obviously, if Avalanche were
built into or provided with Windows, it would have to be consciously
selected or turned ON by the user, as it's a peer-to-peer method and can
allow others access to your machine (and of necessity, you to theirs).
Although it's inherently secure there is always that perception of the
opposite - that irrational element of mistrust. And some people love to hate
Microsoft. 
</way_off_topic>

Anyway, in my opinion it does no good to complain to Manifold about the
perception that something is wrong with their servers. As users, we just
love complaining, and blaming someone else, perhaps? 

I'm sort of interested to try a 'Download Manager', but I would also have
this nagging doubt on 5 out of 5 successes downloading an 80Mb file from
Manifold that it was just the roll of the dice: the next 5 tries might all
fail 
(for Dimitri Rotow's benefit - I'm joking of course). 

IL Thomas
GeoSciSoft - Perth, Australia

-----Original Message-----
From: Simon Greener (SpatialDB Advisor)
[mailto:spatialdbadvisor at netspace.net.au] 
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 1:44 PM
To: geoscisoft at iinet.net.au; 'Manifold List Server'
Subject: Re: [Manifold-l] download problems - still

As I said in my posting I got it down with IE but not Opera. This is
the first time I have ever had a problem with Opera (whose transfer
software is first rate and very, very reliable). In the past I have had
lots of problems with IE which is why I prefer Opera (or even Flock).

I have never had a problem downloading large files - for example
Oracle Enterprise DB from Technet!!! - via my Aussie ISP (which
is netspace). I have 512k broadband with 10g+ per month download.

I am not a networking wizard but is there some sort of Microsoft  
handshaking
going on here as part of the transfer?

regards
S

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 04:25:31 +0100, SCISOFT <geoscisoft at iinet.net.au>  
wrote:

> Colin, I don't think many people would disbelieve anyone on this list who
> says that they have no problems at all with downloads from Manifold. I
> believe you!
>
> Fact is that I have frequent problems - and my ISP (iinet) is not the
> smallest ISP* in Australia, but even with recent changes to its corporate
> shareholdings which has added cross-continent cables that are  
> independent of
> Telstra, I can believe that here in the inner suburbs of Perth WA we have
> more problems with interrupted delivery than you do in Toronto NSW.
>
> That is, I think Dimitri Rotow has a point in suspecting that the ISP
> sometimes can be 'blamed' for the inability to download large files.
>
> However, as I have pointed out to others, I don't have any problems
> downloading files larger that say 5Mb or even 50Mb from a number of other
> sources.
>
> Some of those files come from companies like Microsoft who have the
> resources of outsourced servers specifically for downloads (from  
> Akamai), so
> the originator end is well set up for such files.
>
> In that light, though, it's hard to blame my ISP when I never have a  
> problem
> with a largeish MS download (and I'm not talking about the  
> specially-managed
> downloads from MSDN subscriptions that use the File Transfer Manager  
> client
> to download with).
>
> For those who appear to be experiencing frustration with downloads, I can
> suggest (but not recommend, because I have never used it myself) the
> moderately-priced utility ($US25 I think - 14-day free trial available)
> called "Internet Download Manager v5.05", at this URL
> http://www.internetdownloadmanager.com/
>
> Just for interest's sake, when I'm in town and very bored I will try this
> utility for downloading. I would be interested in the experiences of  
> anyone
> else who uses such tools (there are a dozen or so common ones) for large
> downloads from 'troublesome websites'.
>
> * iinet is #2 or #3 I think - but I haven't checked Whirlpool for latest
> rankings
>
> IL Thomas
> GeoSciSoft - Perth, Australia
> -----Original Message-----
> From: manifold-l-bounces at lists.directionsmag.com
> [mailto:manifold-l-bounces at lists.directionsmag.com] On Behalf Of Colin
> Driscoll
> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 5:11 PM
> To: 'Kingsley at Synix'; 'Manifold List Server'
> Subject: RE: [Manifold-l] download problems - still
>
> Kingsley,
>> From Toronto NSW Australia- I don't have any troubles downloading from
> Manifold and having done a lot of beta testing means many many  
> downloads. I
> think a couple of times over the last 4 years I have had a corrupted zip
> file. I got the recent public beta first time.
>
> Probably no help to you but at least should be said!
>
> Cheers
>
> Colin Driscoll
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: manifold-l-bounces at lists.directionsmag.com
> [mailto:manifold-l-bounces at lists.directionsmag.com] On Behalf Of  
> Kingsley at
> Synix
> Sent: Sunday, 15 October 2006 4:43 PM
> To: 'Manifold List Server'
> Subject: [Manifold-l] download problems - still
>
> Hi List and Dimitri
>
> Given that you Dimitri doesn't seem to believe there are problems with  
> the
> manifold server, i tried yet again and this time got the error message:-
>
> Could not save the file <name> as the source file could not be read.
>
> This is different to the last 5 failures I had - but the source file is  
> not
> on my computer
> - its on the manifold server. Why could it not be read? A manifold server
> problem?????
> This attempt was over a month from my last 5 and it can hardly be due to  
> a
> corrupt cache.
> Once again, you are merely wasting my download quotas as something is  
> badly
> broken.
> Please send me this on CD - your website is far too unreliable!
>
> As I have said before - I do not have ANY other problem on any other  
> server
> I use - not even the microsoft SP2 download of 250Mbyte 2 weeks ago.  
> Worked
> first time.
>
> QUESTION: Why does the internet discriminate against only traffic coming
> from manifold and not all the other download traffic which works?
> ANSWER: It doesn't. It's not the internet doing this - its an unrobust  
> setup
> of the manifold server.
>
> Please stop pretending there is no problem. Sure it works sometimes -  
> maybe
> if you are all on the same continent. But there are many reasons why FTP
> servers fail (too many simultaneously open connections is one that  
> microsoft
> themselves acknowledge as a bugfix for VISTA).
> Someone needs to check why there are so many complaints and retries. Such
> things are very rare on most other download sites, but surprisingly  
> common
> on manifold. WHY?
>
> Kingsley Burlinson  Darwin Australia
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>

-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Simon Greener
SpatialDB Advice, Solutions Architect,
Oracle Spatial, MYSQL, PostGIS and Manifold enthusiast
Allens Rivulet, Tasmania, Australia.
Voice: +61 3 62396397
Longitude: 147.2048
Latitude: -43.0141

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