[Manifold-l] download problems

[Linus F Upson III]

    Hey, folks, I was just providing a data point.  Download still does not 
work.
    A handful of folks have e-mailed me directly saying that they too have 
trouble.  Different countries and different ISPs.  I'm not making any 
statement nor criticisim.  Just stating a fact.  Linus

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dimitri Rotow" <dar at manifold.net>
To: "'Manifold List Server'" <manifold-l at lists.directionsmag.com>
Sent: Saturday, 14 October, 2006 11:23 AM
Subject: RE: [Manifold-l] download problems


>
>> download large files successfully. Hence my suspicion that
>> the setup of the manifold server is at least partially to blame.
>>
>>
>
> and
>
>>     Don't doubt it at all.  Two different machines; 6 hours apart;
>> same result.  I'll wait for the real thing.  Linus
>>
>
> I wouldn't be in a hurry to ignore broad information in favor of very thin
> samples.  That's just a formula to overweight your own experience and 
> ignore
> what is really going on. The data are that there are vast numbers of
> downloads of updates.  Experienced Internet people know there are many
> reasons why downloads, especially those going half-way around the planet,
> might have problems in transit.  Combine the two and it is virtually
> guaranteed that there will be some failure rate, say, 1 in 500 or higher,
> even with perfect servers.
>
> It's similar, I suppose, to how some folks leap at considering every
> unexpected result a "bug," when in fact as a matter of statistics it would
> be more efficient to invest into a careful examination of what is being
> done.  In this case as a matter of simple statistics you would be better
> served by accepting the truth that virtually everyone else but you is 
> having
> successful downloads and considering, carefully, that the problem is not 
> in
> the server but more likely in the chaotic chain of Internet connections
> between Manifold's server and your desktop.
>
> Consider the "same result" comment: Same Internet link by any chance? Same
> ISP? Same proxy server? Some people will rig up gateways or proxy servers 
> to
> cache transfers.  So if you hit the same URL it returns the same content
> (the idea is to save bandwidth by not re-fetching something that's already
> been fetched).  That's fine unless the transmission was damaged before it
> got to the cache, in which case you simply get the damaged cache.  That 
> will
> happen to anything downstream of the cache regardless of when or where the
> URL is hit.
>
> No doubt people more familiar with Internet innards can suggest other
> scenarios. The point is that there is much that can go wrong even when
> servers function perfectly.  Can servers misbehave?  Sure.  But given the
> statistics that's not the first place to look until the data indicate it's
> time.
>
> In the meantime, I assure you that what I wrote in my previous posting is
> indeed correct, that very many other people have downloaded exactly that
> same file without difficulty.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dimitri
>
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